When Matt Kahn and Joy Kahn met, they instantly recognized each other. Both had been channeling divine information for years—Matt from the Akashic Records, Joy from the energies of Melchizedek and Jonah—and when they compared notes, they discovered they were bringing through nearly identical teachings. What emerged from their union is something the spiritual community has been waiting for: a practical, structured path for healers to step fully into their gifts.

In this inaugural episode of Aurora Luna Star's "The Up Vibe" podcast, the power couple reveals the ancient technology they call the Healers Code—and issues a challenge to everyone who's been holding back: "What are we waiting for?"

Matt and Joy Kahn join Aurora Luna Star for a paradigm-shifting conversation

What if Imposter Syndrome Is Actually a Skills Gap?

For healers, coaches, and spiritual practitioners struggling to get their work into the world, Matt and Joy offer a radical reframe. "The imposter syndrome that we felt at different times was really a lack of skills," Matt explains. "There were things that we didn't understand. We didn't know that we didn't know them."

Joy, who left corporate America to pursue an eight-hour-a-day meditation practice, describes the shift: "I went all into heart. I was bringing in all of these amazing energies and I was feeling blissed out. But my ability to really hold space in a way that would serve others, that was something I had to develop."

The distinction they make is crucial: imposter syndrome isn't about unworthiness requiring more self-belief to overcome. It's about needing structure. "When you have the form that guarantees transformation, you know how to walk someone through breakthroughs," Matt says. "You don't have to try to over-believe in yourself to compensate for doubt. You actually believe in the structure that you've learned."

Watch the full conversation to understand how structure becomes the container through which intuition can truly serve.

What Ancient Wisdom Was Hidden in a Deck of Playing Cards?

The centerpiece of Matt and Joy's work together is what they call the Healers Code—and its origin story is remarkable. "The Healers Code is the original form of numerology that comes out of Egypt, ancient Egypt," Joy reveals. When Egypt was invaded and their sacred texts destroyed, the priests hid their most important technology in plain sight: a deck of playing cards.

The couple explains how ancient Egyptian numerology became modern playing cards

"The playing cards that people used to play poker or blackjack or see in Vegas is actually the original numerology system of ancient Egypt," Matt explains. The system was used to determine people's gifts, their greatest societal impact, the challenges they would face, and the strengths they would build from overcoming them.

What makes this system different from how it's been taught since the 1980s? "It made its way back into our awareness through very traditional sort of fortune telling pathways," Joy notes. "But it's actually a system for mental, emotional, physical and community awakening. It's actually a direct map."

The irony isn't lost on them that playing cards—now associated with gambling addiction—once held the key to human awakening. "I'm not surprised that something that's being resurrected is being inverted on our planet," Aurora observes. Matt adds a fascinating perspective: "The more often over the years people have done inverted rituals, trying to harness the power of source... the more in the quantum field, the awareness of those powers become known, and then can be remembered by light beings who are going to use them responsibly."

Why Are We Learning Lessons Instead of Developing Skills?

One of the most transformative teachings in this conversation is Matt and Joy's reframing of the spiritual journey itself. "We are here to learn skills, not lessons," Matt declares. "We don't hurry up and learn the lesson because we don't do things that are less than our highest values, and then justify, well, it's okay that I was in a relationship with someone that was terrible for me, because look at all the lessons I learned."

Joy and Matt reframe the spiritual journey from learning lessons to developing skills

The distinction matters because the "lessons" framework keeps people stuck in patterns. "I believe that people hold themselves hostage with their lessons," Aurora agrees. "That becomes another trap that a lot of people will stop their evolution in some way, shape or form, because that brings them back to the unworthiness."

Instead, the skills framework offers humility and momentum: "I'm learning skills. I'm developing skills. And where in my life are the choices that lead me to develop the skills?" This shift transforms how we relate to fear. "If it brings about fear, that doesn't mean I'm going the wrong way. It's not a no from the universe. It's a, in order to gain, I'm going to lose and I'm willing to lose whatever needs to be lost in order to develop these skills and become a new version of me."

Joy adds a powerful insight about fear itself: "Physical fear is about movement. It's an inspiration to do something. But internal psychological fear, it's also an inspiration to do something, but the doing something is moving forward... the fear isn't there to stop you, it's there to hold the door open."

Matt offers two simple questions to rewire our relationship with fear: "What benefit would come to my life if I moved through the door, no matter how afraid I am? And what's the risk or the cost if I never move through that door?"

Throughout the conversation, what emerges is a portrait of two teachers who understand the healer's journey from the inside. They know the years of meditation, the developing of gifts, the struggle to articulate value in a world that often dismisses spiritual work. They've learned—sometimes the hard way—that heart without structure leads to burnout, and that intuition without form becomes "a kind of winging it."

Their message for this moment in history is clear: "Mental unwellness is when spiritual awakening happens to people who are under-resourced." The solution isn't more inner work for those already on the path—it's developing the skills and structures to serve the awakening that's already underway.

As Matt puts it in his closing challenge: "For many years, we've all been sitting with the phrase, we are the ones we've been waiting for. But as of today, let's shorten that phrase... to the question, what are we waiting for?"

Stream the complete conversation now and discover your own Healers Code at freereading.mattenjoy.org. Learn more about their year-long curriculum at HealersCodeAcademy.com.

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